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Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:37 am: | 
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recently in the Lake County News Chronicle, it was stated that our "firefighters" need to be rewarded. I ( and many others) don't think so. On August 1, 2003, these "firefighters" were 40 minutes late. ( I was freaking there!!!!!!!!!!!)
The result, a little girl died. She may have been dead when they arrived, but you know what? How could anyone know when the Firefighters were stupid enough to not even check under beds?
Reward them? No. You have a better chance of saving people if you call your vetrinarian. |
Orionfang
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:40 am: |
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Oh and for the people who disagree, try watching all of this stupid crap happen before your eyes. Try being a friend of the family and family and watch the tears roll down faces. Try asking the 50 people who were watching. |
webman
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 01:13 am: |
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That was a very tragic fire and loss of life. One of those things that will live in the memory of our community for a long, long time.
You make quite a bold statement. I was not there and don't know what happened. But really, 40 minutes late? How could that be? Have you (or has anyone else) reported these concerns to anyone who might actually be able to address them? We certainly do not want to see any lives lost to fire that could be avoided.
That said, I think our fire department generally does a commendable job of protecting our community. They sacrifice their time, sweat, and tears. They leave their families and their jobs to attempt to save the property and lives of others. The monetary compensation they receive cannot possibly be worth the risks and dangers they may have to face each time the alarm goes off.
I hope that you and the "50 people who were watching" have all been to the fire chief, the mayor, the city council, and anyone else who might help. |
Torggy
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 09:04 am: |
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Fireorionfang, I can not imagine what it must be like to watch a house go up in flames knowing that a child is inside. It is one of the worst nightmares a parent can face. However what caused the fire? Bad wiring? A faulty appliance? I do not know but somehow I think I would blame that rather than the fire department.
If 50 people outside were unable to do anything for 40 minutes then I have to agree with Webby. It is not time to call the fire department names but time to step up and make a difference. Calling names and pointing fingers will not bring that poor little girl back. But community action will save future lives.
I know many fire fighters, the majority of which are volunteers. The dedication of these individuals is amazing. The time they must put in for training and equipment upkeep is staggering. If you want to make a difference then join in.
On a related note I am always amazed that when government at almost any level is forced to cut spending the first place they invariably cut is police and fire. It is almost like they punish the taxpayer for not paying enough. Here in Washington State the governor just got his house redone and a new aircraft, the legislature keeps their French chef in the capitol kitchen but the funds for those volunteer departments are cut. Forcing local districts to do the same job with less.
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The Facts
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 09:21 am: |
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Here are the FACTS!!!!!!!!! So DON'T you dare state that it took 40 minutes to respond!!!!!!
This is from the News Paper.....
Larson said the fire was reported by several people, but the first report reached the 911 dispatch at 11:40 p.m. By 11:47 p.m. the first truck with five men, already suited up and ready to go with oxygen tanks and fire clothes, left the fire hall.
That truck, which carries 1,000 gallons of water, was closely followed by the rest of the equipment and five more firemen.
“I was on the scene within one minute of the first truck, and the second floor already had fire and smoke rolling out of the windows and the east side dormer,” Larson said.
He said the fire spread quickly because of an excessive amount of fuel “due to construction of the walls.” Much of the walls were all wood as opposed to sheet rock. He also said the second floor was well ventilated, which helped the fire spread.
Larson said the 7-year-old was found around 2 a.m. The last fire truck got back to the fire hall about 7:30 a.m. Saturday morning.
Larson said the building has been declared a total loss, and is considered to contain at-risk material because of carcinogens.
City administrator Lee Klein said a meeting was held Aug. 12 with the property owner and the officials involved to talk about the cleanup process.
He said Harvey was given six days from that date to secure the property and 14 days to give the city a plan of action for repairing or razing the building.
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The Facts
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 09:25 am: |
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I thought I would put the entire article in here. Also the sheriff's department would have the times if you don't believe this.......
Fatal fire cause still officially 'undetermined'
BY MONICA ISLEY
Lake County News-Chronicle
Last Updated: Thursday, August 21st, 2003 03:56:45 PM
The fire marshal’s report on the blaze that took the life of a Two Harbors girl is not expected to be made public “for a long time.”
That was the word from fire chief Scott Larson this week, who said that although the fire marshal’s investigation continues, the local investigation has now been completed.
“The property has been turned back to the owner,” he said.
TaJ’anna Cahoon died Aug. 1 in the fire at 717 2nd Avenue. The family rented the property from Mike Harvey Jr., who lives in Two Harbors.
Injured in the blaze was 15-year-old Jaimee Cahoon, who had attempted to rescue her sister from the second floor. The mother, Jill Cahoon-Lee, her boyfriend and three other children were also home at the time, according to Cahoon-Lee.
Larson said the cause of the blaze is still listed as “undetermined,” and that its origin was the second floor. He also talked a bit more about that night, something he wouldn’t do earlier.
“It’s not our policy to comment on details until the family has contacted us with any questions they might have,” he said.
Larson said the fire was reported by several people, but the first report reached the 911 dispatch at 11:40 p.m. By 11:47 p.m. the first truck with five men, already suited up and ready to go with oxygen tanks and fire clothes, left the fire hall.
That truck, which carries 1,000 gallons of water, was closely followed by the rest of the equipment and five more firemen.
“I was on the scene within one minute of the first truck, and the second floor already had fire and smoke rolling out of the windows and the east side dormer,” Larson said.
He said the fire spread quickly because of an excessive amount of fuel “due to construction of the walls.” Much of the walls were all wood as opposed to sheet rock. He also said the second floor was well ventilated, which helped the fire spread.
Larson said the 7-year-old was found around 2 a.m. The last fire truck got back to the fire hall about 7:30 a.m. Saturday morning.
Larson said the building has been declared a total loss, and is considered to contain at-risk material because of carcinogens.
City administrator Lee Klein said a meeting was held Aug. 12 with the property owner and the officials involved to talk about the cleanup process.
He said Harvey was given six days from that date to secure the property and 14 days to give the city a plan of action for repairing or razing the building.
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Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 03:33 pm: |
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Your rather a stupid git aren't you? I was there the whole time!! I even watched them take her body from the freaking fire. ( That comment was to The Facts) Yeah something is being done about it.
Don't freaking tell me that they were not 40 minutes late when I was THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dedication? More Like DEAD-ication. |
fritz
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 05:03 pm: |
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Fireorionfang: What time did you make your persanal call to 911? What time did you try and gain entry to rescue the girl? What time do you say the F.D. arrived? What did the crowd attempt to do? You've demonstrated your ability to sling mud. Now how about some facts from your perspective. |
Torggy
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 05:50 pm: |
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Fireorionfang is it your desire to open a dialoge about this or just call us names? I for one think it is something that should be talked about. However, I do not respond well to being called stupid. Take a deep breath and try to tell us what happened. Because after reading the article it did not take the fire department long to get there after the first call came in. Did you call 911?
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TH'er
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 08:19 pm: |
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"Larson said the fire was reported by several people, but the first report reached the 911 dispatch at 11:40 p.m. By 11:47 p.m. the first truck with five men, already suited up and ready to go with oxygen tanks and fire clothes, left the fire hall."
I don't mean to sound like I am ignoring the fact that a life was lost, but Fireorionfang, it sounds like you have some other issues to deal with. Like the fact that you are NUTS!! Do you not know how closely monitored and recorded 911 calls and response times are? Do you think there is some sort of conspiracy here? Perhaps the 911 dispatcher, the fire dept, the ambulance, the rescue squad, the city police, the county sheriff, AND the local paper are all in cahoots? Give me a break. You are mad and upset over a lost life? Good! We should all be upset over such things. But to blame those who try to serve their community through the various organizations above? You are not being realistic. You say you were there. So what is being done? Are you going to just bad mouth everyone or are you going to dish out some accurate information that people might be able to use? Like when are you and "the 50 people watching" going to the City Council. When are you going to larger news organizations? When are you going to hold the public lynching of the Fire Chief? When are you going to start coming out in the open and educating parents and children about the need to have, and practice, a fire escape plan? |
The Facts
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 08:38 pm: |
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AMEN to Fritz,TH'er and Torggy!!!!!!
Fireorionfang you need to settle down and get your head back on track. Like I said before you need to check with the sheriffs department and YOU WILL GET THE FACTS!!!!!
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Concerned
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 09:00 pm: |
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Aren't we putting the cart before the horse? I mean I was devistated to hear that a child had lost their life and another was seriouly burned. However I to believe it is unfair to blame the fire department. I have worked as 911 receiving operator and TH'er is right that call time and response time information is closely monitored and recorded.
At an emergency of this or any serious nature it can seem like an extremely long time to respond when in real time its not.
I think what we all should be asking is why was this building be allowed to be rented. I was at the City Council meeting when they discussed the fire and the building's history.
Now this is not the exact wording but it seems there is only one building inspector in Two Harbors and he is only in Two Harbors one day a week. There were some question about whether or not the condition of the building had be reported to the city prior to the fire and even that question wasn't clearly answered.
The Council discussed that inspections of buildings in Two Harbors and that is was long over due. Unfortunatley with only one building inspector on one day a week and more than 300 + needed inspections. (note..the number also in question).
Maybe the question is what is the City Council going to do to make sure that landlords that are renting to families have their buildings up to code, and what can we do as a community do to educate about fire safety, home safety and countless other community issues that the City Council has yet to deal with.
Here we are almost a month later and the burned out build is still standing, WHY?
Has the City hired additional building inspectors to catch up with the back log of inspections. (oh and did you know the the county health inspector offered to assist in the inspections)
So you see fireorionfang people in Two Harbors are deeply saddened by the loss of the child who's name by the may was Tajanna. As one of the other messages said please "take a breath" believe it or not we do feel the pain of this loss. But let's try and be part of the solution not part of the continuing problem.
Call your local volunteer organization and volunteer, learn CPR or first aid, start a neighborhood watch, start safety education programs. Ask your City Council how you can assist and volunteer in your community so that something this awful NEVER has to happen again. YELL and screaming doesn't get you heard it gets you ignored. |
bassman
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 03:12 am: |
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My Grandmother owned that house at one time in the 30's & 40's. Our family lived there with her and she also had 2 railroad boarders that live in the upstairs two front bedrooms. My brother and I had the bedroom next to them and my sister next to us and our parents in the top back bedroom towards the garage. It was a very large house and I had many fond memories living there. And by the way, my Dad was on the T.H. fire dept. and I can remember him racing out the door to go to the fire hall on 2nd avenue just a block and half away many a time.
My heart goes out to the family that lost their young daughter in that terrible fire. I just can't believe that it took the fire dept. 40 minutes to arrive from the time the 911 call was placed. I am sure that it can all be proved from the time the call was made to the time that they arrived. I think the local paper report that was posted is correct. |
anon
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 11:03 am: |
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I was present at a fire scene many years ago (not in T.H.) before the local professional fire dept. arrived. It was at a condo. It was early in the afternoon. I was quite nearby and perceived a commotion. I saw some smoke and about 30 - 40 people milling about crying and yelling incoherently. I ran over there and saw a mother holding two of her three young children near her while they all wailed that the third child was inside, but that they could not find her before they had to get out of the home. I pleaded with the mother for assurance that the child was indeed inside, and she insisted that he was definitely in the home. After pondering for a moment, I told the mother that I would try to find the five year old. I ran in through the open front door thinking about what a stupid stunt this was. My thought was that a child would likely be hiding in a bedroom upstairs either in a closet or under a bed, and that he would be quickly found, conscious or not. I tore out the closet contents, and swept both arms under the bed of bedrooms one and two without finding anyone. The bathroom and shower were vacant as well. The building was quite smokey upon my entrance, and was now completely filled with smoke. Visibility was about six inches, and breathing was very very hard. The downstairs was in flames and the flooring upstairs was beginning to burm my feet from the heat below. I had to give up on finding the child in order to keep from becoming a victim myself. I ran back down the stairs and out the front door. I told the mother where I had looked and that I had not found the child. It was a bad scene. As I was leaving to go and take care of my feet and get cleaned up and changed, I saw that the child was returned to his mother by her grandmother who lived nearby. Evidently the child had been visiting without mother's knowledge. I was very relieved that the child was found unharmed, but was a little bit pissed that I had taken the risk for nothing. Of course, the F.D. had arrived by this time, so I took off in order to avoid a scolding from the pros for my rash action.
The purpose of this story is my way of posing the question, Was there anything that the onlookers could have done? I am accusing no one with the question. I was not there. I probably would not have repeated the previous act. In fact, I guess the question itself is moot. But is it really fair to ask a volunteer fireman to enter a burning building if you are not willing to do it yourself? So what if they have a little protective gear...ITS A BURNING BUILDING!!!
All of that is history now though. Lets not forget the little girl's survivors. That night will never be forgotten by her grieving family. Her teachers and classmates in school will miss her presence. Lets remember that the family's grief will not end with the closing of this thread.
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Torggy
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 11:45 am: |
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Wow!! Thanks for your input Anon. Kind of put it all in prespective. I hope someone like you is around if any of my family is ever in trouble.
Bassman, sorry to see the place of many of your childhood memories be destroyed. |
No name
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 04:11 pm: |
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And I have heard there were no smoke alarms. If there had been, may the death have been avoided? Probably. Fault of the landlord or renter? BOTH. |
Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 08:38 pm: |
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I know I am hot-headed here. But then again, when have I not been? No, I am not crazy, I am not lying. I can't forget that night. Crazy...Hmmmm let's see how you do when someone you are related to is brought out of a house that burned and they don't tell you anything. Try having the tears burn your eyes at everyone's pain.
Yeah, some of you are right. I am angry. I am mad. I am in pain. However, I am not a liar. It doesn't get me anywhere in life. I am not so angry at the Fire Department as I am at the Harvey's. I grew up with these people, that little girl was special in so many ways. And the Fire Department and the Harveys did squat.
No. You can't fault the renter. Other than in some areas. (These areas have nothing to do with the fire.) There were no smoke alarms. |
Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 08:41 pm: |
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Oh yeah, and TH'er take your 12th century attitude, sit on it, and spin. talk to me, don't challenge me. |
TH'er
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 09:18 pm: |
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I am trying to talk to you. And yes, I am also challenging you. As it stands right now, I simply don't believe your claim that it took 40 minutes for the fire dept. to arrive. Maybe you can convince me. I don't know. I have talked to a few people who work within the fire, rescue, and ambulance. What they tell me does not support your statements. I suppose I could go around the neighborhood, knock on doors, and start asking questions. But I think the burden of proof falls on you. It is you that is making the accusations. Why don't you come forward with some solid information, neighbor and bystander interviews, etc. Present your case to the local paper and the Duluth paper. If it is a good case, take it to a Twin Cities paper. Get it to the investigative reporters on the local TV stations. If your claim has any validity, they will be all over it. See, I am not just challenging you, I am trying to give you some ideas that might actually help you convice me (not that I really matter), but more importantly, convince people who are in a position to do something about it. No one wants to see anything like this happen ever again.
I have some issues with Michael (Spike) Harvey, Jr. too. I also grew up around that family. I also knew Spike as an adult. When I heard he was the owner of the house, my first thoughts were that he would not have any insurance and that he could probably have cared less about whether the house was safe or not. I think he should bear 100% of the financial burden for removal of the house. I think someone should sue his sorry ass for leaving the place in such pitiful condition in the first place. |
Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 11:49 pm: |
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Ah. I see. In the first place, it's 11:50 at night and I have to get up at 6:00. Why am I up? Because I am a freaking Insomniac.
I see what you mean about the Harvey's in General. Things are being done about it. The Harveys are being taken to court, and they were not allowed at the memorial service. See what bugs the hell out of me, is that I sat there that night with the Cahoons. It also bugged me that none of the newspapers had the story right in the first place. 4 of the kids were home not 5.
I never asked any of you to believe my "claim" as you said it. (Ok, Typed.) I was simply stating. I know that some of you are rolling your eyes and shaking your heads, but what happend and what is and was said is true. At least on what I said. It's up to the rest of us (you) to believe or disbelieve what you want.
But remember (As I contradict myself)LOL) that you can't always believe what you read or hear.
**SIGH** |
Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 11:52 pm: |
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I can't get drugs for it either. ( INSOMNIA) For when I wake up in the morning I can't even think straight. GRRR.
Anyway, I am not an angry person, it's just that things like this bug the hell out of me, and I also have a deep mistrust for Two Harbors. ( I am not going to explain.)
So there, it's out. I am not out to get anyone, I am just...here..... |
bassman
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 02:02 am: |
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TH'er gave you a lot of options to persue this matter with the papers in T.H., Duluth and the Twin Cities. As he also mentioned that a Investigative Reporter from one of the Duluth T.V. stations would also be a good idea. I haven't seen in any of your posts where you have said anything that you have or are doing, to see that the wrong that you seem to have seen is followed through with. All I have seen is what you have vented here and not one thing that you are doing to bring your matter to light and investigated.
I am not attacking you or what you said, but if what you said is true and I were in your shoes, you can bet that I would not give up on it. So please tell us just what you have done and are doing to get your version of the truth out!!! |
Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 07:31 am: |
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I can't do a whole heck of a lot because they are working with lawyers right now. I have left it alone, but that message for supporting the Fire department was what set me off.
However, on more then one occasion family members have stayed with me while they are looking for places to live. |
Torggy
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 08:50 am: |
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I have a question. I realize that a landlord has a responsibility to provide a safe environment. But does that mean as a renter you have no responsibility for your own safety? As a renter you live in the house, you should know if it has fire alarms? That it has unsafe conditions? I do not know the Harveys or anyone involved in this horrible event. However do not the people that live in a house, apartment or whatever help to create their own environment? I am not trying to point fingers at anyone here, but somehow placing the responsibly for my family's safety in someone else's hands just scares the hell out of me. |
Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 01:00 pm: |
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The renters did bug the landlord. He didn't do a thing. They were looking for a place for a long time. But when you have a seven person family it is not easy to find a 4 bedroom house. |
Gretel
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 01:13 pm: |
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Fireorionfang - I think what is being asked is: Did the renters buy any smoke alarms themselves to help in keeping their own family safer? Again, no fingers being pointed but a few dollars for a couple of those, or a trip to the fire department to ask for a couple, would be a good idea for anyone out there that doesn't have any in their homes.......rental or not. My families safety is my responsiblity no matter what. You are correct in the fact that there is very little available for rentals. I hope they will take a smaller home and make do with it instead of settling for another hazard. With a large family in this town its not practical to be too "picky". ( not a good word to use but I hope you know what I mean ). Its not easy to afford even renting something these days but I hope they find something safer and find the means of helping themselves get a place of their own. It will take hard work and more than one income but I have a feeling they can do it. |
Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 04:58 pm: |
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See, that's the thing. They don't have ANYTHING. No house, no place to live but a 1 bedroom cabin just outside of town. The oldest girl their is expecting a child and is now in her fifth month and the maternal things are kicking in. I feel so frustrated, because the mother is doing nothing to help the situation. ( I'd rather not get into that.) Anyway, the eldest is looking for a place to live by herself (She's 17) to raise her baby. There are a lot of factors in why the rest of the family is not in a place.
I am not trying to fight here, it's just frustrating. |
Ponder This
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 04:16 pm: |
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One of the Two Harbors City Councilman who owns rental properties doesn't have insurance either can you guess which one? |
greatlaker
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 11:09 pm: |
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Ponder...would that be the guy who got so upset when the other council guy said the city should change the rental property ordinance and make landlords have some kind of insurance to keep the rest of us from having to pay to have the ruins hauled off?
PS - I heard the 911 tapes show that as the first call was coming in, the alarm was being sounded: you can actually hear it on the tape! |
greatlaker
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 11:11 pm: |
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Bassman: did you used to live in that house, or was it your grandmothers? Did the guy on the "shame" thread ever send you the pictures? It looks like he registered, since he's now adding larger pictures... I'll bet he's got more pictures that just the one, too! |
bassman
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 02:27 am: |
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Yes greatlaker, I used to live in that house in the late 30's and 40's. It was my grandmother's house and she had two R.R. boarders that lived upstairs in the front two rooms. My brother and I had the bedroom right behind the upper right window. The fellow who live in the right upper room was named Lars and every payday he would slip two Hershey candy bars under our door when he came home at night. What a treat when we woke up the next morning to see them on the floor by the door.
And thanks to Webby, I did get the larger picture and so appreciated it, even if it did make me sad to see that old house in that condition and to know a young girl lost her life there. There was only one stairway to the downstairs from upstairs and it was right across from our bedroom and lead out to the side door.
If he does have other pictures of that house, I would appreciate receiving them. He can get them to Webby if he does and he can send them to me. I will see if I can find any pictures of the house that I took while back on one of my vacations to my ole hometown. It is still very near and dear to my heart. |
Ponder This
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 08:53 am: |
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I'm not sure greatlaker about that but I did hear that one of them doesnt have insurance on "HIS" rental property. Yet another fine example of do what I say not what I do. |
Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 08:31 pm: |
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It seems that there are a lot of "dishonest" Landlords. Though myself I have dealt with them alot already and I am only a senior in High School.
Bassman, I know what you are talking about when you look at the house. I still look at it now, and remember how much fun I had in that house. How many memories were created there, and the place that I never thought of being gone, is.
Yep, weird is the right word for it. (Oh and if anyone stopped by there recently and read what was written on the window sills and also saw a black "Big Dogs" hat on the ground, the hat was there because it was my favorite thing in the world, just like the memories I had there, and not to mention T.T. would occasionally Steal it.) |
sisg
| | Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 04:20 pm: |
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It is good that you are finding a way to grieve. I hope that as time goes by you are able to find that your pain has become less intense and you are able to see the wonderful things that life will continue to bring.
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Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 10:50 pm: |
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Yeah, I can pretty much so guess that at least most of you know who I am. Anyway, it's kind of weird right now, becuase I am going to school with one of the Harvey's. It's hard not to be angry, but I just don't say anything to her, because it's not her fault her father is an ass. |
bassman
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 01:21 am: |
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Because you said in an early post, that you couldn't say anything more on this matter because there was a lawsuit pending, maybe it is best that you don't say anything more or just go ahead and say what is on your mind. |
fireorionfang
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 07:41 am: |
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I can't say much about the whole lawsuit thing, but I can talk about what' going on with them. Hey, does anyone know of a place around that has like 2-3 bedrooms? |
sr. frog
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 02:08 pm: |
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How about Rustic Creek? Seriously. |
Fireorionfang
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 07:06 pm: |
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Yeah, There is something about that, I can't remember what. But if the Lady Cahoon doesn't stop fooling around they are not going to find anywhere up here. |
webman
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 04:03 pm: |
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Time to put the lock on this one too. Sad topic.  |
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